MM
First of all, Carl, thank you very much for doing this.
CB
It's my pleasure. I wish Richard were here. If he was here we could cut up a few jackpots. I'm sure he remembers some of those old days-I'm having a tough time, but (laughter)
MM
Well, let me ask you a couple of things about your career before we get into Richard. Ah, when did you start in show business?
CB
Ah, in 1939. I did a straight magic act. And a couple of guys on the bill said to me, 'Hey, cut that out. You're gonna get nowhere with that.' So I said, 'What shall I do?' He says, 'Try comedy.' I put comedy in the act and that was the end of the act; I did the straight magic act for about eight months.
MM
Well, where was your first gig?
CB
In Chicago. I was playing those toilets around Chicago, on the same street with Sir Richard. And those other guys, which I'll never forget: The Three Snozolas. Three guys doing Durante. Amazing act.
MM
Little club?
CB
Oh yeah, little place.
MM
Can you describe it?
CB
Just a little dance floor, three-piece orchestra, and a few tables and a spotlight somewhere and that was it. Had three shows a night. Did the last show about two in the morning.
MM
And great money evidently?
CB
Money was terrific. If you get $300 a week out of it, that was great. That was big money. I don't think I ever got that much - not with that act, you see. That was before I had the good act.
MM
Now what happened was they said to you to add comedy?
CB
Yeah, these two guys, a comedy act, they're on the bill, you know. And they said, "You're a funny guy." I don't know where they got the idea. "You're a funny guy, forget that. Get some laughs." And I said okay and next thing I know I was getting laughs.
MM
How did you get them? How did you add comedy to your act?
CB
Oh well I could write, yeah. I had some knowledge of comedy and one of the first gags I did, you know, was - I had a fish bowl on a table, I lit a match, threw it in, shot a pistol and said "Here it is, the first time: a swimming match." Yeah, they said, "Oh, that's the stuff you want." That's it. In fact I did that on Sullivan.
MM
Really, you did the swimming match?
CB
Yep. I did it on one of the times I did Sullivan.
MM
Now you played vaudeville for quite a while?
CB
I did the last end of vaudeville, the last maybe ten years of it. Ah, it's not real vaudeville, you know, it just had a band on the stage and maybe a couple of acts. Me and a dance act, let's say. And that was it.
MM
And what was real vaudeville then?
CB
Real vaudeville was six acts: dancing act, juggling act, couple of comedy acts on the bill, an elephant act, --an animal act, you know-and it was on stage. And we had the orchestra in the pit. Now, in later years of vaudeville there was a band on the stage, like Louie Prima. I worked for Louie Prima a lot, see. And there would be two or three acts in front of the band. And he'd kill 'em, you know. He did one number that nobody could follow. I was the only guy that could follow it. And consequently I played and worked a lotta dates for him. Every time he worked he says "Get Ballentine. He's the only guy that can follow this."
MM
Now what was the big number that . . .
CB
It was an Italian number where he'd speak in Italian throughout the telephone book that he's got there. See? Killed them with that-killed them. And they'd say, "Now here he is, the great Ballentine." Out I'd come -go ahead and die. Yeah, I was the only guy that could follow it. He played many a night.
MM
Did you have to psyche yourself up to do that or ?
CB
No, no, that was part of the act. That was it. I don't know care where I worked on the bill, you know. Opening show or followed him. Good, it was great.
MM
Are we getting any sound off that microphone?
CB
Are we getting anything?
MM
Is it rattling?
CB
Where the Hell is it that it's rattling? It's so hard to get good help - you guys notice that? Okay, well, try not to rattle. Okay.
MM
Maybe you can describe the Chicago scene at the time you met Buckley.
CB
Well, it was late hours at all times. Now, of course, I can't stay up 'till nine. But at that time at two in the morning, we'd all get together and cut up jackpots. Now I wish I got to know Buckley better. But he disappeared. He was there just shortly and. . .gone. I don't see him for a long time after that. In fact the next time I saw him was in Las Vegas when he's scat singing in that club in Vegas.
MM
El Rancho?
CB
Exactly. I'm working on a bill with Betty Grable and he's in the lounge. And we pass words and talk to each other.
MM
Do you remember the first time you met him?
CB
On Sheridan Road in Chicago where there's three stud. It was me and him. We're playing on the street. He had another friend with us. Little short guy. I don't know what happened to him, but he carried a little bag. I often wondered what was in that bag, but now when I think back, I think I know.
MM
Okay, Carl. Could I ask you to say "First time I met Buckley was in Chicago and then whatever you want to say?"
CB
Yeah, first time I met Buckley I thought he was a terrific guy. I says "This guy got a lot of talent, you know." I mean not knowing him. And he disappeared, got out of the picture for a long time. I don't know. Of course I went on to playing vaudeville, and he, I think, was still playing those clubs around Chicago. And I don't see him again until the Ed Sullivan Show. And then I saw a lot of him on the Ed Sullivan Show. It was good.
MM
What was your impression of him? You saw his act?
CB
Yes, I did. I thought it was great.
MM
What was he doing there, do you remember?
CB
When I first saw him? He was a scat singer. And telling bad jokes, well good jokes. He was getting laughs. Yeah.
MM
Was he doing that four chairs thing?
CB
No, first time I ever saw that was on the Sullivan Show.
MM
'Cause he evidently played a lot of vaudeville dates as well, using that . . .
CB
Never worked with him. Maybe.
MM
Did you see him do his hip material, that kind of hipster stuff?
CB
He was doing it in the club in Vegas. Yeah, I'd pop in between shows, cut up a few jackpots, and talk.
MM
From one comedian to another, what do you think his appeal was? You know, he seems funny, but nobody can quite tell why? What was it that was funny about him?
CB
Well, basically what makes a comedian is a good actor. Buckley was a good actor. And on the strength of that, he was a good comedian. I've never seen a bad comedian that wasn't a good actor. It's easier for a comedian to play a straight part, I've noticed that. Much easier.
MM
And what is the thinkin? I mean when you're on stage, you're acting?
CB
Yeah.
MM
Like in your magic act. . .
CB
That's - I 'm only a magician in name. Not a magic act. I have to explain that to people who book me. Not a magician. A magician does magic; I don't do it. All I do is talk about it.
MM
Now you're kind of famous for not ever finishing it.
CB
Oh yeah, they're gonna have a big testimonial to me in Vegas in January. It took him about forty years to figure out that maybe this guy is alright. You know.
MM
And you hung out with Buckley a little bit?
CB
A little bit. In those days, on Sheridan Road. That's when I first knew hi. Wish I knew him better. My wife knew him. My wife liked him a lot. There was a time when she was in the hospital. it was in New York, and we had seen each other on the street that day and I told him my wife was in the hospital. He says, 'What hospital?' He went to visit her. They wouldn't let him in. They said, 'You can't come in there, doctors only.' He said, 'Wait a minute, I'm a doctor of mirth, where is she?' Sure enough, he got in. Exchanged a few words with the wife; it was beautiful.
MM
A doctor of mirth.
CB
Doctor of mirth.
MM
Can we do that again.
CB
Sure. The wife was very fond of Dick too. I think Dick must have liked her also. She came down with an appendectomy in New York. And I met him on the street and we spoke about Cile. And he said, 'Where is she?' In a hospital up here on 57th Street. Hospital's still there. He said, 'I'm gonna go visit her.' Now I don't know where I was; I might have been over at the Paramount doing six shows a day, at the time-first show's at 9:45. Those were the good days. So he went to visit Cile and they wouldn't let him in. They said, 'You can't come in here, this is doctors only.' He say, 'I'm a doctor of mirth, where is she? Let me in, I want to visit Cile.' He got in and they visited and she recovered. And I remember that very well.
MM
That was a sweet thing for him to do.
CB
Yes. So what I think is, he was a sweet gu, -on the strength of that.
MM
In comedy, what do you think the most important thing is?
CB
To get laughs. You know, if you don't get laughs it ain't funny.
MM
Maybe I should - alright you win. I guess in terms of technique. . .
CB
Without being too dirty. Now today you get dirty, it's no trouble. You get dirty right from the opening. Say good evening folks, and hit 'em with kack and stay that way.
MM
But what about - both you and Lord Buckley, you weren't dirty comedians.
CB
No, no. Buckley was not a dirty comedian. No. I got a ltitle dirty later on in life.
MM
You did?
CB
I had to.
MM
To survive?
CB
That's right. That's right. And yet they said, 'You shouldn't, you shouldn't.' Don't tell me what I need: they're laughing. I'll tell you when.
MM
Were you at all resentful that you had to do that?
CB
No, no - that's okay. I could do it clean, I could do it dirty, I could do it anyway. So I could do it without props, too. In fact I did it once. Got to a job once, the props never showed up. All I did was go out and tell 'em what I do. Explain to them "'Table comes out here, the fish bowl is over there" No props. Nothing. Just as good .
MM
Well, did you get rid of the props then?
CB
No it was back to the props. But I did it again on another gig. Took a lot of nerve, believe me.
MM
How about technique-wise. You saw Buckley perform - what was it that struck you about his technique?
CB
His attitude. His attitude, his demeanor. Yeah, Buckley was great. He looked like Buckley, looked like Buckley. Didn't look like Milton Berle, you know. He was unique.
MM
And his attitude? What was it about his attitude?
CB
Ah, devil may care.
MM
And was that something that any comedian could do?
CB
No. No a lot of guys could never do what he did with those four guys. When I first saw that, I loved it. I'm surprised no one has ever done it.
MM
What is so difficult about what he did?
CB
It's not difficult, nervy. And you have to have a little talent. Timing, it was good.
MM
Did you ever see it when Sullivan was his stooge? I thought that was nervy.
CB
Yes, that was nervy. Right.
CB
You know, Sullivan- - not the greatest - 'cause all Sullivan can do is point. That was his game. It wasn't funny. And he didn't know too much about show business either.
MM
Well, he was a theater critic, right?
CB
Well, he wrote a column, a scandal column - I don't know if it was a scandal column or not. But in show business, you know, you have a juggler, you have a singer, you have an acrobat, a magician. You know, nice bill. His layout, you'd have a singer, another singer, one more singer and than a juggling act that sings. He'd have four acts that were the same. I don't know who laid out his shows, but it was always baffling to me. Who lays out those bills?
MM
Where would they put you?
CB
I didn't care where they put me. In fact once he came to me and says, 'Carl, we don't have much time, can you do a minute and a half?' I says, 'Right up my alley.' I did a minute and a half. And that's when I first did this swimming match?
MM
Oh, and so you just led up to that?
CB
Two or three more gags and they said the minute was over.
MM
And you got paid enough?
CB
Oh, yeah. Sullivan was not cheap - he paid. He paid good.
MM
A friend of Buckley's from San Francisco said that - well they were friends, evidently, Buckley and Sullivan. He said that really that's what kept Buckley going, was he'd get to do the Sullivan Show once a year and he'd get paid nicely.
CB
Yes, he would. He paid well.
MM
Do you remember hearing about him dying?
CB
No, not a word. I heard that he died and I felt bad, naturally. But at the actual time, I know nothing about it.
MM
Was it really hard to play those -you called them 'toilets?'
CB
Course it was hard, sure.
CB
They don't care to watch you and they're gonna get drunk and trying to make the chick he's with, you know.
MM
Was it demoralizing or did you . . .
CB
It was just a way of making a buck. Naw, there were better clubs. There were good ones, like in Chicago there's the Chez Paris, which was a top club. But when you played that, it was just like playing a palace. Or the Palmer House.
MM
Where was that?
CB
The hotel in Chicago where they had a room where they played the best acts. I can remember playing there too.
MM
Was it enjoyable work?
CB
Yeah, I enjoyed doing it. Of course, there were times when I didn't. I don't want to mention towns, but I played one town where they had no idea what I was doing on the stage. Some place in Massachusetts. Once I met a guy and he said, "You know where I'm from"' and he mentions the town and I says, "Don't mention that town to me, I played there." And they were asleep throughout my act. Now the bad thing about the act that I did - if they don't get it right away, I'm finished. If they don't know that I'm not a magician, 'making it tough. It happened in that town! I hate to mention that town. They must have gotten hipper since then.
MM
I hope.
CB
Course this must have been in the '40s. It was a vaudeville theater that played three days.
MM
What do you remember about vaudeville? I mean was it a wonderful thing to do?
CB
Very friendly game. Everybody knew each other, they liked each other, used to get together to eat in time out. The only thing you have to worry about is guys doing your act. In vaudeville, they thought nothing of grabbing anything that you do and put it in their act. I'm on a bill once in Miami. There was a guy on the bill that conflicted with every act on the bill. He did juggling, he did hokey magic, and he sang parodies.. Conflicted with everybody on the bill.
MM
Oh my gosh. How is the shine on his nose?)
RM
No problem.
CB
Forget the nose. In fact I just won a contest by a nose. I'll show it to you. It's kinda funny - took first prize. Won by a nose. The dog is not too crazy about this thing.
MM
He must have heard it before. Ah, Buckley never made it as big as you did, by any stretch.
CB5
Well, I never considered myself as making it big either. Buckley made it big in a way, I think. I mean he played places that I never played. So that makes him better than me, I guess.
MM
Oh I don't think so.
CB
Well, different kind of act, different kind of act.
MM
Well, if - I know he had desire to make it bigger than he did.
CB
I know he wanted to do film. I know that.
MM
Why do you think it didn't happen?
CB
I don't know. I wish I knew the answer. Yeah, cause he had the ability. He could act. He looked right; he looked perfect.
MM
Did he at all seem crazy to you or was he a -
CB
Oh no, no, no. Just as crazy as any guy I know. I know a lot of so-called crazy people, but they're not crazy. I liked Dick Buckley.
MM
Anybody else got questions?
CB
Ask me anything. My life is an open crotch-book.
MM
That was from your later act, right?
CB
Yes, that's right, I did that too.
RM
What about his history, that he was part of the medicine show circuit. Is this possible, in the early part of this century, medicine shows?
CB
No, it must be before my time.
MM
Yeah, he evidently played some medicine shows in the '20s.
CB
He did? What was he on, the valley platform? Hustling the customers to come in?
MM
I think he was a shill.
CB
Just a shill.
MM
He would be out in the audience and he would become . . .
CB
Oh yes, I'll take a bottle of that.
MM
Yeah, Did you ever experience the walkathons?
CB
I remember him doing that. I remember him in the walkathons. Indeed I do. He was the emcee. Right.
MM
What did he do?
CB
"Rose, over there, number seventeen, get in there." You know he was a moderator. Sure, I don't think he was one of the guys walking. No, no. I think he was more -
MM
Managerial. Master of ceremonies. Do you remember any of the gags that he did? Because evidently he did quite a few crazy things.
CB
I'm sure he did.
MM
There's one story of him swinging on a rope from a balcony with a monkey, and crashing into the orchestra.
CB
Perfect.
MM
That sound like him?
CB
Sure, that sounds good. That sounds right. I would do that myself.
MB
Did you and Buckley hang out at all together?
CB
Only in those early days, we'd meet for a night snack at two in the morning and cut up jackpots. You know, that's long before he did those four guys. Which of course I was glad to see because nobody else did that.
MM
What does 'cutting up a jackpot' mean?
CB
Well, talking about old times, you know. What are you gonna do? What happens when we close here tonight? Go get some girls - regular jackpot talk.
MM
In the '60s, in my era, we called that 'shooting the shit.'
CB
Same thing. Same thing.
MM
I like cutting up the jackpot better.
CB
Yeah, cutting up the jackpot is soft.
MM
It's positive, too.
CB
Yeah, that's right.
RM
May I ask you, who were the people that you watched that were your mentors in the business?
CB
It's amazing - my mentor, no one believes. I saw a guy in vaudeville once that did an act. When the curtain opened, they had every musical instrument in the world on the stage. All of them. He would walk out in tails and everybody was waiting for him to play one of his instruments. Never played it. Talked about it - talked about 'em, curtain closed, and he went off. I says that's the act for me. That was my mentor. Nobody believes it because they don't remember that act.
MM
I can believe it.
CB
That's great, I says this guy does nothing and walks off. Right up my alley. That's what I want to do: nothing. And I did. I did fifteen, eighteen minutes of nothing.
MM
It's hard work, though, isn't it?
CB
I'd like to do two hours. But you can't find two hours of material. I wish I could.
MM
But it's a tremendous art to do nothing.
CB
Absolutely. The main thing about doing nothing is you never know when you're finished. That's the hard part.
MM
Is there such a thing as sort of a grand finale of a nothing act?
CB
Yeah. You have to do something. You have to do something to get off. That's important in show business, you know. And I did something, which also didn't work. I learned how to produce a bouquet of flowers. They never came up. Suddenly they jumped up-and that was the end of the act.
MM
Oh, you mean so you tried all the way along?
CB
Oh, absolutely. You gotta have a finish. Now many guys said "Why don't you finish with a real magic trick?". "I says you tell me a good magic trick to finish with?" I have watched magic for forty years and I can't think of a good magic trick to finish. Or I would have.
MM
You're too young probably to have seen Houdini, right?
CB
Oh, yeah. Before my time. But I'm not that young, you know. But I'm not that old.
MM
You have some questions?
RM
Do you recall any girlfriends with Buckley?
CB
Except I visited once and I don't know who answered the door. When they lived up here in Hollywood. I came there and asked for Buckley and she said, "He's asleep." And she was half naked at the time. I figured they didn't want to see me and I walked away.
RM
The world of burlesque is differentiated by - CB
Oh, absolutely. I know nothing about that.
RM
There's a museum out near Barstow about Burlesque. It's really a different world.
CB
Different world entirely. Occasionally a variety act would work in burlesque. They would throw one in. To give the comics a little rest, or give the girls a chance to take off their clothes backstage.
CB
Yeah, that's a different field altogether.
MM
And how about - I know Greg Palmer asked you this, the transition from the stage to the theater.
CB
Easiest thing in the world. No problem, no problem.
MM
So really nothing changed?
CB
Not a thing. They have to like you, no matter where you're at, whether you're working those toilets that we started to play in Chicago, or the Palace Theater, or cabaret. Television? Easy, easy transition. Television was a cinch.
MM
And then you moved to, like you were in McHale's Navy. Did you do any other series?
CB
Yeah, I did a couple of other series that didn't quite make it. I did one called Once in a Million and that didn't make it. And I did the forerunner to Love Boat. It was ahead of its time. Was called"the Queen and I". It was also on a ship, but they weren't ready for it. They weren't ready for it. Maybe three years later, maybe four. Up comes Love Boat.
MM
Carl, back then, Buckley was quite the viper?
CB
The viper?
Mm
Quite the pot smoker and . . . .
CB
Yeah, I'm sure he was. 'Cause he carried that little suitcase. He didn't but the guy he was with carried a small bag about this big, and that could carry a lot of stock, you know. And I believe he was a pot smoker.
MM
Was that rampant back then?
CB
Sure, everybody smoked pot except me. I couldn't inhale. So that's why I went to cigars. Cigars you don't have to inhale, you know, you just smell the aroma. I was a lousy pot smoker. Oh well, I tried. I gagged on it. It's not funny. It's not the kind of - MM
gags that you were looking for?
CB
(laughs)
RM
Did you ever run into Lenny Bruce?
CB
Again, that's a guy I never ran into. And I was around at that time, too, but never ran into him. 'Cause I gave up playing those saloons early. Enough was enough. I went into what's left of vaudeville. That's probably why I never ran into Lenny Bruce.
MM
And you got to play nice houses in Las Vegas?
CB
Oh yes, hell yes. I played 'em all. I was probably the first guy to play those clubs in Vegas with the kind of act that I did. Played the Sahara, played a place called the Thunderbird. And I played in a place - when I first saw Buckley there he was in an act in the lounge.
MM
Did they treat you nicely in those places?
CB
Yeah, sure. 'Cause I was white. In those days they didn't treat the blacks very well, in those early days. You heard that?
MM
Yeah.
CB
I mean they pay an act a lot of money, but you can't come in the casino, can't come in the front door. Gotta go through the kitchen. They got rid of all that, thank God.
MM
Buckley in his later act used a black dialect.
CB
Yes he did.
MM
Do you have a reaction to that?
CB
No, just seen he was doing Louie Armstrong. Which was okay. Everybody knew Louie Armstrong. He don't talk like Milton Berle. Sure that's okay.
MM
Carl, what would you say Lord Buckley's place in comedy is?
CB
I wish he was better known. To me, I know him better than the guy we talked about earlier, the guy that played Latka Gravas?
MM
Oh, Andy Kaufman.
CB
Andy Kaufman. Now I think that he's better known than Andy Kaufman, though he didn't do a series like Andy Kaufman did. But then that don't always make it either.
MM
Do you think he contributed to comedy, I mean was there things that he thought up that . . .
CB
I've never seen anybody do the four guys; I've never seen it. You would think if somebody stole it, I would say, he contributed quite a bit. But I never seen anybody do it.
MM
The only people that-- there are some people that do Buckley impersonations that do it.
CB
Never seen that either.
RM
Is there a current actor that you think could play Buckley if they decided to do a. . .
CB
I mentioned, who did I mention earlier. . . ah, we talked about Gene Hackman, but I thought the other guy would be better. Ah, what's his name? The guy that did that aeroplane thing. Leslie Nielson. I thought he'd be perfect. Because he's got that hambone in him.
MM
Do you remember Buckley physically?
CB
Vaguely. He was tall.
MM
Robust?
CB
Yeah, carried himself very well. He was an actor. Buckley was an actor. When he hit the stage, you liked him.
MM
Is that something that you learn to do, or do you have it in you?
CB
It's got to be innate. Absolutely.
RM
Did you find that he was always in the Buckley character, or was there another side to him?
CB
Evidently there wasn't. At least to me, the times that I ran into him, he was always Buckley.
RM
Did he always have the mustache? Did he have the British accent?
CB
Yeah, that should have got him a long way, that British demeanor, 'cause he was perfect. He was perfect.
MM
And you know he was from Tuolumne, which was . . .
CB
Oh, it figures. Yeah, oh yeah. What town was that? Someplace in Iowa?
MM
No, out near Yosemite. Where are you from, Carl?
CB
Well, I don't want to mention it, but nobody believes it. I'm from Chicago.
MM
We were just in Chicago. We interviewed Studs Turkle.
CB
Did you mention me?
MM
Yeah.
CB
You did? Studs knew me.
MM
Yeah. We said-because we wanted to uncover some of vaudeville and things like that.
CB
He remembered me huh?
MM
Yeah he did.
CB
Good boy.
MM
Good boy, yeah he's 88 years old.
CB
Yeah, I know. The guys 36, ya don't remember me.
RM
If somebody came out on stage today with an act like Buckley's, would it play?
CB
Yes, it would. It's always amazing that no one's done it. I probably shouldn't say this, because somebody is watching who's probably gonna steal it.
MM
Now's your chance.
CB
I could do it.
MM
I bet you could do it wonderfully. Do you think you could do the different voices?
CB
Yeah, sure. But I wouldn't do it.
MM
No, well why not?
CB
Well, I never like to do stuff the other guy does, the other guy did.
MM
Are you gonna perform in January?
CB
Yes, I'm going to perform in September at the Alex Theater. They're having a 75th anniversary and I'm booked on it.
MM
Oh that's wonderful.
CB
I'm gonna have to dust off the act, cause I haven't done it in awhile.
MM
So you'll just practice a little bit and. . .
CB
Doesn't take much practice, just try to remember the routine. And I also want to add some new stuff.
MM
Where do your ideas come from?
CB
Ah, I don't know where they come from.
MM
I mean from people you meet, things that you hear?
CB
Well, things that I see gives me an idea. Like a simple gag - it's always good to do a gag that the public knows, otherwise you can't do satire. If the audience don't' know what you're doing, it's not funny. When a guy throws me a broom on the stage, right? Okay. Now we gotta get a laugh with that. It gets a laugh at that point. Right. I pick it up, it's a 'one pound Oreck.' Now if they don't know anything about the eight pound Oreck that's been advertised all over the frickin world, I get no laugh with that, see?
MM
Ah, so you really have to - CB
Be on top of it, right. What I do have another guy walk around, I put a blindfold on, I pick up stuff off the floor. I say "what is this?" Nothing to it, it's the cheese. I mean as long as they understand what I'm talking about, we'll get laughs.
MM
When you first come out on the stage, you have to figure them out right away?
CB
They figure me out right away, or I'm in trouble. They know right away that I'm full of shit. I try to tell 'em that. I tell them if you're looking for magic, you're in the wrong theater. Get out.
MM
If they figure it out. . .
CB
Then I got them home free. They say, "Ah, he ain't gonna do this one either. How's he gonna do it?'" MM
How's he not gonna do it?
CB
Eeh, that's it, very simple formula. As long as they understand what I'm saying, you know.
RM
Do you remember ever hearing Buckley talking about why he chose the particular kind of humor that he did?
CB
No, I wish he had talked to me about that. I could have helped him. . . more.
MM
What would you have done? What would you have contributed to his act.?
CB
I'd have to see him a number of time. Really, I'd be very happy to contribute, cause I liked him. I liked him. He can have anything I did.
RM
Give us a comedian's critical assessment of Buckley in his. . at what he did.
CB
Well, there's always jealousy. Ah, most comedians said, 'How in heck can he get away with that, with those four guys talking?' That always hurts. A comedian can't understand that. I understood it. I knew it was clever and good.
MM
What was clever about it?
CB
Making those guys talk. Good. The things they said.
MM
You said in the wrong hands, it would be miserable, right?
CB
Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's audience participation the way it should be. Good audience participation. See, and again the audience knows what he's doing, otherwise he'd get no laughs. You know, shake a head.. As long as they know what he's doing. Gonna get laughs.
MM
And he knew what he was doing?
CB
He knew what he was doing. Absolutely.
RM
It seemed like what Buckley was doing, in those kind of acts, is making the audience laugh at the other people.
CB
Sure, that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. That's sure-fire. They do that on quiz programs everyday.
MM
One of the things that someone told me was that you laughed at the stooges, he didn't treat them badly. They weren't ridiculed.
CB
That's right.
MM
Sometimes comedians will ridicule the people.
CB
Yes, he didn't do that. As I remember, he did not do that and that was good.
RM
Buckley was denied his cabaret card there at the end. How did that strike you?
CB
Yes, I heard of that. I can't believe that. I can't believe that. Huh.
MM
Did you work New York at all?
CB
Oh yeah. Played the Diamond Horse-Shoe-big cabaret in New York at that time.
MM
When was that, do you remember, Carl?
CB
Gotta be in the '50's.
MM
So you must have had to have a cabaret card?
CB
Well, of course. Of course. But I think today those days are over. There is no cabaret card. 'Course there is no actor's union, I mean variety actor's union. That's over with.
MM
After Buckley died, they changed the law.
CB
I'm sure they did.
MM
He was part of the reason.
CB
Right.
RM
What was the story behind the cabaret card. Why did they require one?
CB
I don't know. I don't know. Maybe it was a matter of getting dues. That's all I figure.
MM
Did they ever shake you down for that?
CB
Yes, they made me join it, whatever it was. What the heck was it called? What was the name of that union?
MM
Well, no it was just the cabaret card thing. I mean from all we can tell, they tried to figure out how much they could pull from you and then that's what they'd ask for.
CB
Oh, that's terrible.
MM
Did you experience that in other places?
CB
Never. Never. First I've heard of that. Shake them down, huh?
MM
Yeah. They were shaking people down for money.
CB
Well.
MM
Alright. Carl, thank you very much.
CB
Oh, listen I wish I was more knowledgeable on Buckley. I'd like to have done two hours on him for you.
MM
Well, you did great. What did we do?
RM
Forty-three minutes.
MM
Forty-three minutes. You're halfway there Carl.
CB
Ah, you got at least three minutes there you can. . . .
MM
Any final thoughts , any . . . do you have one more thing?
RM
I was just wondering who you like today, out there?
CB
Today? It's hard for me to like any of those guys. 'Course, ya see one, you've seen 'em all. Course there was one time I walked into a theater and there's a guy on the stage in a tuxedo, and I couldn't tell you who is was. It could have been anyone of fifteen comics doing the same jokes. Looked the same way, delivered the same way. And some of them became successful. And a lot of them fell by the wayside. Today comedy stores are full of those guys. There's a guy sent me a tape who's the dirtiest comic I ever listened to. They just gave him his own series on ABC.
MM
Really?
CB
Dirty! I mean this guy is the dirtiest I ever heard. You'll find his name there in that group.
MM
Well, we'll take a look.
CB
Are we through?
MM
Thank you Carl. |
